Do you think nude "models" are even models at all?

Question

I see questions all the time asking about nude "modeling" or I will see on Model Mayhem, these young girls being talked into nude shoots because the desperately want to be a "model"!

In my opinion, taking naked pictures is NOT modeling in any way! As a model, to me, you are a salesperson, who instead of using your words you use your ability to show off a product by wearing it, holding it, eating or drinking it to instill a pleasant or appealing feeling to the consumer making them want to look or feel the same as yourself! I really fail to see how wearing NOTHING makes you a model for anything unless of course your plans are to sell your skin on ebay or something (there are some weirdos out there lol)... A REAL client is going to hire you not just because you are cute but because you present their product well and make it look good! Sure as a nude "model" you may be hired for things but 99.9% of the time it is just a guy with a camera who wants some naked pictures or wants to submit them to a nude "art"site (ever look at one of those?? most are more porn than art)..

Any opinions on that or agree, dis agree??

Answer 1

A couple of definitions of MODEL (out of a dictionary)

1. a person or thing that serves as a subject for an artist, sculptor, writer, etc.

2. a person whose profession is posing for artists or photographers.



So where in there does it say that a model is a salesperson, or has to show off a product etc?



A model is a tool that artists use.(that will ruffle some feathers)



You obviously know very little about the subject and probably best you don't generalise and say that it is only "a guy with a camera who wants to some naked pictures".



Snowdon

Bob Carlos Clarke

Bailey

Hamilton

Lachapelle

Parkinson

Donovan

Herb Ritts

Avedon

Leibowitz



Hardly "guys with cameras", not even all guys.



If you want some of the top models who have done nude work

then that list is pretty impressive as well.



Of course there are some around (models and photographers) who do it for the "thrill".

But, you quite simply are totally wrong with your ignorant generalisations.



Edit to respond to the additional details and silly comment from a poster.

Nicholas. My answer was far from rude. You asked a question to which you already had an opinion and then get upset when someone does not agree with you.

I stand by my statement that it is an ignorant generalisation on your part because to say what you have then you obviously are ignorant of the business. There are many thousands of photographers and models who work to nude and most certainly are not in the "porn" business. The list of (rather more than 6) photographers was to indicate the level of some of those who have done work of that genre.



Bill. (not hard to get a name right is it?). I will give your question a miss thank you. No doubt just a silly rant. Stating someone is making an ignorant generalisation is not rude when it is true.

Answer 2

The nude human form, both male and female, has been used in art since the beginning of time. Just because someone is being photographed instead of painted doesn't in any way cheapen the fact that it is, in the proper hands, art.



There is a difference between modeling for a catalog shoot, and modeling for a fine art photographer. The two end products are going to be used for very different purposes. One will be used to show off clothes or a product, one will be used to showcase an artists creativity and mastery of his subject in order to invoke an emotional or other response from the viewer. Besides the fact that if you attend a college art course, one of the earliest things you do is to paint or draw a nude model - working with the nude form is one of the best ways to learn how to handle the human form in any way it's presented.



Would you go back and tell Michelangelo that his nude forms on the Sistine Chapel are in no way artistic, or for that matter any of the great Renaissance painters? Surely you don't think that nobody ever modeled nude for them? Would you say that those men were perverts just wanting to see a pretty lady/man naked? Would you classify their work as porn?



I won't disagree that there are a few people out there who really are just pervs who want to see somebody naked, but there are far more who simply admire the human form and want to capture it in a way that they find interesting and hope that others feel the same way enough to buy their work.

Answer 3

Oh boy, so opinionated and so wrong at the same time.



You are wrong in so many ways that it is hard to know where to start.



Others have already pointed out the definition of modelling.

If modelling is just to "show of a product" then we would have a distinct lack of art in the world (be that nudes or anything else).

Effectively the model themselves could be classed as a "product" but that is a different argument.



What is a "REAL" client then? Is it the person who pays many thousands (or millions) for a single painting of a bunch of flowers, a person who pays a few hundred for a photograph to go on their wall, a hotel owner who pays many thousands for "artwork" to decorate their premises or an ad agency trying to sell you a bottle of some fizzy drink?



A "REAL" client to me is one who pays for a product or service.



Many of your definition of "REAL" clients do hire models because they are or look "cute" or have good bodies or pretty faces simply because that is what they want. The old saying "sex sells" is still as valid today as it was in the 60's.



Even going by your definition of what a model is, then a model who models nude or even a porn model is still a model as they can and will "instill a pleasant or appealing feeling to the consumer".



Of course there are those around (both in the photography and modelling side) who are less than savoury. Thankfully they are a minority rather than a majority. If you had been around the top echelons of the fashion scene you would know that it is often the clients who are the unsavoury ones rather than the models or photographers.





You say you are familar with the subject in your additional details but I have to say you certainly don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about and are simply expressing your opinion rather than the facts. Although you try and phrase it as if you know what you are talking about.



There are many thousands of models who model nude and would seriously take you to task for saying they are not real models. Many of the worlds top models have and do model nude for a variety of photographers. Photographers who I am sure would like to meet you and explain the difference between what they do and what some guy with a camera does.



You are of course entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be, but the problem with having an opinion without actually having knowledge of the subject, is that it leaves you open to accusations of "ignorant generalisation" as someone has already said.





You moan about others being rude or judgemental in their comments and yet, in my opinion, your comments are the ones which are extremely rude and judgemental.

Answer 4

I think you have a limited scope of what a model does. I don't know you obviously, but it appears that you think models are for showing off clothes. That would be understood because that's what many of them do. I think there are other considerations though.



Companies hire models to sell a product, that is a given, but what that product is, is open to debate. It could be jewlry on a nude and that would ceratinly be acceptable, well mabe not in the USA, but you get the idea. There are a lot of products that can be sold , including the world of ART, Art is a product that is sold just as much as anything else is. Most of all though is attitute, companies have a view of the world and need to project themselves as giving it's buyer it's attitude. A good example of this is simply the clothed model, it's about the attitude not so much the product. People are actually buying the attitude. Companies try to get people to identify with them, they sell idea's and emotions and hook their clients into this world of their image.The model could be wearing a 57 chevy for all it matters, the clothes become almost a moot point.

Answer 5

The textbook definition of "model" is as follows:



6. One that serves as the subject for an artist, especially a person employed to pose for a painter, sculptor, or photographer.



Of course the definition that you are going by is correct as well, but not the only definition of the word. Some people (myself included) see the human for as a work of art. It doesn't even have to be someone in peak physical condition if the artist knows what he/she is doing with the model.



Photos and paintings of nudes have sold for thousands of dollars. The buyer saw the artistic merit in the human form. If it was "porn" as you say you could get a LOT of subscriptions to assorted websites/magazines for thousands of dollars.



So basically you are right, but are being narrow minded to the other possibilities of the term.

Answer 6

If you are uncomfortable why are you even asking us? You need to trust your own instincts. I personally would never be comfortable with this. Your son should always be far more important than any artist's attempt at "art." Free expression is one thing, but not really when it comes to protecting children. It sounds like you already had your son pose for this photographer. I would recommend that you speak with a counselor (psychologist or social worker -- a therapist with good credentials) about this. Sounds like you are grappling with some "boundary" issues and you need to take better care of your son & not let strangers have such intimate access to your child.

Answer 7

You have to understand the human body if you are going to shoot/paint/sculpt people. But naked pictures are not necessarily art.



As for "are nude models" models? Anything you put in front of a camera is a model. It doesn't matter if it is an eggplant, a woman or what.

Answer 8

Now wait just a second here, there is a difference between being a 'porn star' and doing artistic nudes!



I've worked in several different fields of modeling, most in the artistic nude. I work as a sketch model, photography, canvas [where the artist paints you and uses you as their artwork]. You fail to see it as art because you fail to appreciate the beauty of the human body.



You don't have to weigh 90 pounds and have perky boobs to be a nude model-- its not the sexual aspect that makes it beautiful. Its the naturalness of the human body. Also, modeling is NOT just about selling a product, if you bothered to explore it, you'd know this.



I'm employed by Manifest Galleries in Cincinnati Ohio, I've never represented a product. I go in twice a week, pose for two or three hours for a group of students learning human dynamics, and leave [they sketch or paint me]. I also model independently for NKU Galleries in Northern Kentucky-- college students come to me and ask me to work with them for an idea they have, and I model for them. Usually its for photography students.



I've never been the face of a porn website, I've never been photographed for anything questionable. I'm a professional, and deserve the same respect as any other model out there. Just because I'm comfortable with my body and will pose nude does NOT mean that I'm a porn star, nor does it belittle my work!



Oh-- and by the way, 98% of models pose nude at least ONCE because it opens your portfolio. Its not because you're willing to get naked, but because you're comfortable with your body. Photographers and artists don't want to work with someone who is uncomfortable with their body.



It's not just men who are taking these images. I'm a 20 year old female photographer as well as a model, and I've taken my fair share of artistic nudes for use in a photography portfolio. My personal porn book? NO. A professional spread of my work? YES.



Not to mention, since when is posing nude the same as porn? ANY image can be used as porn, a photograph of two kids posing for Gap can be used as porn as much as a nude image of a woman can be. Or is it jaded because the woman is nude, and being nude automatically means you're trying to mentally stimulate a man into thinking sexual thoughts?

Answer 9

You're talking about commercial modeling. You neglected one important role for a model. Visit the Louvre or other art museum sometime. You will see plenty of nude fine art. The women and men who posed for those creations are/were models. No?



However, I do agree with you that there is much pressure on young women who are trying to break into commercial modeling to do nude shoots, many of them by GWC (guys with cameras), some of whom classify themselves as "boyfriends".

Answer 10

Of course there are real models who do nudes. The quality and merit of the image really depends a lot on the artist. However, the model is just as important.



Look at the world class nudes at the Photo.Net gallery and I think you find models do artistic nudes.

Answer 11

why asking a question about our opinion if you have an answer already?

Artistic nude are awesome to me.

this is something i'd love to shoot to be honest.

not for a porn site (ooohhhh NNNNOOOOOO) but as something serious I could put on my portfolio.

the models you are refering to are glamour models, they are models (the clue is in the title) so they are as much a model as you, they just sell different things.

think about it, you don't like the same things as all other people. I personally don't like glamour models, which can appear weird coming from a guy.

hope that helps

Answer 12

I agree to an extent! I don't mean this as a negative statement or against anyone on here, but to all of you who say it has nothing to do with men wanting naked pictures, I count only male answers so far that say nudes are just fine! lol Idk found that funny! So with that in support to your statement Nick, I do however somewhat agree with a few of these answers! There is a fine line between art and just plain smut, and majority of the time it is just smut but I guess you did address that with the "99.9%" comment!



For most of the guys that have answered this, go check out the Modelmayhem.com website and I think you will understand what he is saying, and will probably then agree! I too think times have changed since the dictionary first included the word "model" in its pages, and what people perceive something as usually means that is what it is, and sorry to say but naked pictures are perceived as arousing, and sexually driven.... and the term model in a professional standpoint (Definition: A person who prosecutes anything professionally, or for a livelihood, and not in the character of an amateur; a professional worker.) is someone who makes money at what they do, and unless your shooting for playboy (about .1% of all the nudes out there) you more than likely are not getting paid to do what you are doing! But however that 20k you are being paid to shoot the Billabong ad where the model is wearing cloths is a professional shoot! So I guess I do agree with you here Nick, and for all those who wanted to call him "ignorant" and quote the dictionary, Throw the word PROFESSIONAL in front of model, and his statement becomes 100% true!



Andelle (or whatever your name is) that is particularly aimed at you :) I recently posted a question about some of the things that bugged me on this photography section, and a few of the answers also said that RUDE answers bugged them too... here is the link to that question! I think you will find that YOU are the person they wherereferencingg too! Try a little tact!



https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20100130213232AAqTvsy

Answer 13

Nude Modeling in my opinion is pretty much the same as porn. The only difference, kids might be able to see it..